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update to 2.0 Is this a joke??
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Bryan Mumford



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

I don't get it. People who write software sometimes write new
versions. A new version has to come out sometime. It may be
unfortunate that you bought a bundle three weeks before that
happened. But no one targeted you or took advantage of you. You just
happened to be one of the few people who made their purchase shortly
before the introduction of the new version. For those of us who have
used Amadeus for many years, version 2.0 was not a "hey presto" event.

You got the version you expected to get; the version that was bundled
with other software. Maybe you don't even need the new version. The
new version is probably not available in a bundle.

If it's any consolation, Martin didn't get the full price of the
version you bought. He got a discounted value because it came in a
bundle.

-Bryan


Quote:
I have to say I'm a bit annoyed with this to put it mildly! I was
after a decent sound editor having not long made the move from the
dark side, and bought Amadeus Pro as part of a bundle (but primarily
for Amadeus Pro). That was only about three weeks ago! And then hey
presto, paid upgrade.

Its not good PR, even if the developer thinks it is justified.

Thanks
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archinhel



Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries. I thought my post was relatively restrained! It was just my view.
I was considering the cross platform upgrade to Audition but felt this would be a better bet and i could still dual boot if necessary. (I dont do as much of this stuff as I used to). My decision may have been different if I'd known about the forthcoming upgrade, which brings it close to the Audition upgrade price. And as we all know, we always need the new version! Just like we always need new hardware.

But I'm sure you are right in what you say. I'll put it down to unfortunate timing and get back to my other stuff.

Thanks
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Eddie



Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

GerardBik wrote:
I am really curious why you use three or more different audio editors.

Gerard


Good question. I was mainly using Wave Editor when I saw that DSP-Quattro was on sale, so for $45 (cross-upgrade) it was hard to resist.
Although it's an editor just like Wave Editor, they don't have the same workflow and I often use them for different purposes. I often use DSP-Quattro for things I did not expect to do with it. For example:
1. As a host for amplifier emulators. My copy of POD Farm 2 does not work in standalone mode. Using AU Lab was a solution so that I wouldn't have to launch a DAW, but now I just use DSP-Quattro for that purpose.
2. I have a few "sound enhancers" in my system, such as HEAR which I don't like and Bongiovi DPS, which works only in iTunes. With DSP-Quattro (and JackOS X) I can fine tune my system with more precision and better sound quality, since I use my own AU/VST plugins (e.g., compressor, equalizer, reverb).

I like both and use both for editing audio or previewing how a mixed song might sound after mastering. I prefer how DSP-Quattro handles plugins offering many options (e.g., independent gain per channel, pre, post). If I want to edit a drum loop, and for example want to effect only the snare, Wave Editor makes it easy with the use of layers. I can make a copy for a new layer, automate fades, apply the effect (e.g., eq, compression), and preview the sound. I can also do this in other editors but I would have to select the precise segment, apply effects, and repeat the process for each segment that has the snare. I like Wave Editor's workflow better in this regard.

Which brings us to the third editor, Amadeus Pro. As Martin wrote last month, "if anyone you know doesn't own Amadeus Pro yet, now would be a golden opportunity"
There was no indication that version 2 was coming out, or that it would be a paid upgrade. It has a denoising feature that I find very useful. I received a vocal track a few months ago and spent maybe 10 or 15 minutes eliminating the noise that was present. Amadeus would have been a better and faster tool for that job. IIRC, neither of the applications I use have that feature and I don't recall having denoising plugins. Wavelab does come with a suite of plugins for that purpose.

Hope that answers your question. Smile
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Eddie



Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

dinojrx wrote:
...Wave Editor: never used

Twisted Wave: never used

DSP-Quattro: never used since now, tried to use demo, demo is not fully functional, can't record sound in the demo!?!?

in addition: Adobe Audacity: very good, very powerful, very expensive, $349

But why you wouldn't buy a software when the upgrade is around the corner? There's nobody forcing you to buy the upgrade. AP 1.5 is fine and powerful. The upgrade is no must. Other software too is upgraded and the programmers take money for that. Why not? Do you work for free? Or do the comparison to a car. Do you get the new model for free if you own the older one?

Regards


You may want to contact the DSP people regarding the demo limitation. I've only had to contact them once and got a fast and friendly reply. Both DSP-Quattro and Wave Editor have a very good reputation, and many reviews have referred to them as bargains. And this was when they cost $200 and $250.

I agree with you regarding some of the other "alternatives."

I have no problem keeping 1.5.5, or paying an upgrade. I've donated for freeware many times Wink
My main dissatisfaction with Amadeus Pro is that the upgrade was not mentioned earlier. With most developers there's a window of a couple of months to get a free upgrade, and the new version is announced in advance. I can think of 2 other companies that used the same approach as Amadeus, and for both this approach turned into a marketing fiasco, with dissatisfied customers posting their experience at various websites. IIRC, one of the companies ended up giving users a free upgrade to the new version. Even then, some people said they would rather purchase a competing product. And also IIRC, another developer offered a discount for his competing software to users who had been burned by this marketing approach. You should be able to find posts at Macheist and Macupdate. The software is Speed Download by Yazsoft, and this was around February or March of 2008.

I'll keep on using 1.5.5 when I need to use the denoising feature, which I liked. I have no doubt that Martin is a great developer and a wonderful person, but his approach angered many customers, including potential ones.
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archinhel



Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Eddie that this a perception / lack of information issue more than anything else.

I started off back in the windows day with Syntrillium and Cool Edit 2000! I think that cost more then than Amadeus does now.

So good luck to Martin. He deserves to earn a living and I dont begrudge him that. But people are getting touchy at the moment, There seem to be lots of issues at the moment with upgrades especially as developers migrate to the App Store.

I now I really will get back to my stuff.
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Eddie



Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

Bryan Mumford wrote:
...You got the version you expected to get; the version that was bundled with other software. Maybe you don't even need the new version. The new version is probably not available in a bundle...


Expectations are tricky, then.
For the most part, there's usually full disclosure regarding any limitations of bundled software (i.e., in a few cases they can be free, promotional versions, not entitled to updates or upgrades). Typically, the applications have full licenses, and are treated just the same as if the user had paid full price.

If/when a new version of an application is going to be released soon after a promo, it is reasonable to expect full disclosure. In over 10 years of buying software bundles for Mac, since before OS X, I can think of 3 developers who failed to give me free upgrades. I had mentioned 2 but now I remembered another one.

Is it reasonable to expect a software upgrade and an upgrade fee? Absolutely. Most developers have this approach (some give free updates and upgrades "for life", others ask for an upgrade periodically, like every year for example). I can't think of other cases in which the new version and price increase was unannounced in advance.

Is it reasonable to expect a paid upgrade and a new version a month after the software developer writes "if anyone you know doesn't own Amadeus Pro yet, now would be a golden opportunity"?
I don't think any reasonable person would have expected a new version and an upgrade fee weeks after that statement was written.

There's a difference between making a sale and creating a happy customer. In this case, a sale was made. Whether or not these people remain customers (using and recommending Amadeus Pro to others) will depend on Martin's response.
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Gerard Bik



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

Quote:
Eddie wrote:

Hope that answers your question. Smile


It certainly did. Thanks for the info. You seem to know your way with audio Wink

Gerard
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PoC2



Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind paying for the cost of the upgrade, but the lack of support for 32-bit audio plug-ins is a real downer. There are a lot of them available and they won't work with the 64 bit implementation of Amadeus Pro.

Please build that audio bridge!
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Martin Hairer
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1615

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't mind paying for the cost of the upgrade, but the lack of support for 32-bit audio plug-ins is a real downer.

They do work if you run Amadeus Pro in 32 bit mode.

I am of course aware that this is not optimal. Consider however that:

1. Even Apple, with all their engineering might couldn't get this right, at least
if you trust the hits you get when you Google "audio unit 32 bit bridge"...

2. A bridge will always be a clunky solution: the user interface of the Audio Unit
will run in a separate process which is bound to cause interface problems.

3. All the audio data would have to be routed to a separate process and then
back to the original process for playback, which is bound to create bottlenecks.

Since Amadeus Pro is designed to be able to easily handle large amounts
of data without saturating the available RAM, it runs perfectly well in 32 bit
mode and you should not notice much difference in performance. For these
reasons, I believe that simply running Amadeus Pro in 32 bit mode is the best
solution for continuing to use 32 bit plug-ins. (And lobbying the plug-in developers
of course....) Regards,

Martin

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markwmsn



Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blinddog wrote:
The message to upgrade was very clear that it was to a new version and would cost $40 US. It also gave the option of not taking the upgrade.


Not in my case. When I launched Amadeus 1.5.whatever after a long absence, it started downloading 2.whatever without a by-your-leave, then asked whether I wanted it installed now or when I quit. The only "option of not taking the upgrade" visible was never to quit Amadeus!

How rude!
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Martin Hairer
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1615

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

Quote:
That's because you had it set that way in prefs. you have to set it never to auto downoad updates.

Yes, this is an unfortunate bug. Of course, if the upgrade isn't free there should
be a warning even when auto-update is on. I will fix that in one of the minor updates
of version 2... You can turn the function off in the prefs and then revert to version 1.5
at <http://s3.amazonaws.com/AmadeusPro/AmadeusPro.dmg>. Regards,

Martin

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Ingvar Loco Nordin



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The upgrade came after years of free updates, so for me, having worked with Amadeus Pro for years, getting free updates all the time, the upgrade now was overdue, that is, an upgrade you had to pay for. If you bought you Amadeus Pro very recently, I can understand your irritation, though, and perhaps the company should've kept track of the newcomers, to give them a better deal.
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Martin Hairer
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1615

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

Quote:
perhaps the company should've kept track of the newcomers, to give them a better deal.

I actually did this. Everybody who purchased after the 1st of April received
a discount code allowing them to upgrade for just the price difference between
the two versions. Regards,

Martin

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Eddie



Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ingvar Loco Nordin wrote:
The upgrade came after years of free updates, so for me, having worked with Amadeus Pro for years, getting free updates all the time, the upgrade now was overdue, that is, an upgrade you had to pay for. If you bought you Amadeus Pro very recently, I can understand your irritation, though, and perhaps the company should've kept track of the newcomers, to give them a better deal.


For a different perspective you may want to check out the MacLegion forum.
http://maclegion.com/discuss.htm#/discussions
Shocked

And no, not everyone received a discount code. In the case of MacLegion, after people complained this information was added to the FAQ. Hopefully if a MacLegion user decides to upgrade they will contact Martin or read the FAQ. Otherwise this is all they may see:
"Warning: Version 2.0 is not free. It is a $39.99 upgrade for existing users of Amadeus Pro 1.x and requires Mac OS 10.5 or later."
I purchased Amadeus after April 1 and never received any discount code.

In contrast, when there's a paid upgrade and/or a new version of an application coming out, developers usually disclose this information. For example: "If you purchased ScreenFlow via the Mac App Store (or on the Telestream website any time after 3/15/11, or as part of the recent MacLegion bundle) you will get the upgrade to ScreenFlow 3 free."
Maybe that's one reason why ScreenFlow has such a positive reputation.

I do wish Martin success with his software and I will use version 1.5.5 when I need the noise reduction feature, but I doubt that I'll ever upgrade.
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Martin Hairer
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject: update to 2.0 Is this a joke?? Reply with quote

Quote:
And no, not everyone received a discount code. In the case of MacLegion, after people complained this information was added to the FAQ.

The reason why I could not send the voucher to the MacLegion users is that, since
they did not purchase anything from me and never signed up to receive any information
from me, I would have fallen foul of anti-spam rules.

Quote:
I purchased Amadeus after April 1 and never received any discount code.

It may have been blocked by your or your provider's spam filter (comcast addresses
tended to have that problem). If you wish to receive the discount coupon, please
contact me off-list. Regards,

Martin

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