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Too Many Sounds In a File?

 
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kboasso



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:38 am    Post subject: Too Many Sounds In a File? Reply with quote

I am burning CDs from a fairly intricate Amadeus Pro file, but they are filled with errors and are unplayable. I am trying to figure out the best way to trouble-shoot the problem.

One thing I am considering is how the file was built, and I wonder if the complexity of the sound wave may be part of the issue. In other words, am I trying to get too many pieces of information onto the disc?

Here is what I did:
* I built a multi-track Amadeus Pro file in AMAD format. The completed original file is 1.54 Gb.
* The original file was made up of 45 tracks containing 85 sound clips and 15 markers; total time is 65 minutes & 24 seconds.
* Before burning to CD, I merged all 45 tracks & 85 clips into a single track and retained all the markers. This "merged" file is 693 Mb.
* I burnt the "merged" file to a 700 Mb CD-R at 24x speed with error-checking "on."

Here is what happened:
* The disc ripped as expected with no reported errors.
* When I insert the disc into a CD player, it plays normally for ~18 minutes, then it starts skipping & stalling.

I am not having problems playing other CDs I've burned from other files made in Amadeus using the same burner & player.

I figure the problem can be any number of things:
* The file I created in Amadeus Pro is too complex or large.
* There is a problem with the CD burner.
* There is a problem with the CD player.
* There is a problem with the media.

I'm researching all of these. Difficulty with testing the burner is I need to install Amadeus Pro on a different computer so I can burn with a different optical drive. I don't have a license for that, so I want to check other options first.

Anyone have any similar issues? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

kpb

Here are details on the file:
# of Tracks: 45 (all stereo)
# of Sound Clips: 85
# of Markers: 14
Size in AMAD Format: 1.5 GB
Size in AMAD Format after Merging All Tracks: 693 Mb

Here is my environment:
* Amadeus Pro v2.1.2 (1542)
* MacBook Pro 5,5
w/ Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.53 GHz
& 4 GB memory, 3 MB L2 cache & bus speed of 1.07 GHz
* Optical Drive: HL-DT-ST DVDRW GS23N
w/ 2048 kb cache
writing to CD-R at 700 Mb
* Mac OS X v10.6.8, build 10K549
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kboasso



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

Apparently, it's not "too many sounds;" however, I could use some help / ideas about what may be causing the problem.

Starting with the 693 Mb "merged" file (i.e., it is now a single stereo track with 15 markers), I made four changes before re-ripping a new CD:

1) I broke down the file into 15 separate files (i.e., one marker to the next) and saved these files in WAV format at a 32-bit depth; thus, I ended up with 15 "songs" in 32-bit WAV format.
2) I moved those 15 songs onto a different computer (with a different optical drive).
3) I imported those 15 songs into Apple iTunes (v11.0.2).
4) I used a different manufacturer's blank CD-R (the first was TDK; the new one is Sony).

Using iTunes, I ripped the new CD, and that one appears to work. (I've not listened to the whole thing, but I'm not getting the errors I was getting in the other one.)

I will continue to experiment with these differences. To help save me time & CD-R media, anyone have any ideas about what may be happening here?

Thanks.

kpb
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Gerard Bik



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Too Many Sounds In a File? Reply with quote

You seem to be on the right track.
When you really want to know what goes wrong, check every single step
in the process. One by one, like a scientist would.
You now changed about everything at once. But you do have the cd you
were after.

My guess is that the problem was from the media. 693MB is awfully
close to the max a cd can handle. So when you happen to pick a cd
with a little imperfection at the edge, it throws an error.

A cd can hold an hour of complete silence or distorted hard rock and
still function properly. So I wouldn't blame the amount of sounds.

But that's only guesswork from me.
Gerard
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JEGG



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kboasso wrote:
Update:

Apparently, it's not "too many sounds;" however, I could use some help / ideas about what may be causing the problem.

Starting with the 693 Mb "merged" file (i.e., it is now a single stereo track with 15 markers), I made four changes before re-ripping a new CD:

1) I broke down the file into 15 separate files (i.e., one marker to the next) and saved these files in WAV format at a 32-bit depth; thus, I ended up with 15 "songs" in 32-bit WAV format.
2) I moved those 15 songs onto a different computer (with a different optical drive).
3) I imported those 15 songs into Apple iTunes (v11.0.2).
4) I used a different manufacturer's blank CD-R (the first was TDK; the new one is Sony).

Using iTunes, I ripped the new CD, and that one appears to work. (I've not listened to the whole thing, but I'm not getting the errors I was getting in the other one.)

I will continue to experiment with these differences. To help save me time & CD-R media, anyone have any ideas about what may be happening here?

Thanks.

kpb




Try saving your file as a 16 bit file. The other 16 bits will get truncated anyway, but this may have confused some intermediate software/firmware. (You can't burn a red book disc at anything but 16 bits. From experience, I know that AP will just throw away the extra 8 bits of a 24 bit file, which is the norm for most applications.) Of course that will reduce your file size considerably. (For the record, you should dither first, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion).

Depending on your version of iTunes and how you have preferences set, that may (or not) have taken care of truncating the 16 bits. (While not at all assuming that the 32 bit file is a problem, *it's probably not*-other than you're starting with a needlessly huge file)

When you burn a disc in AP, it should verify the disc after burning. You may need to set that up in preferences, or it may pop up in the burn dialogue, I can't remember which. If the disc verifies, then you don't have a problem. The verification shows a progress bar after the burn.

If the disc doesn't verify, then:
A. Use different media
B. Try burning in a different machine. (I believe the AP license is good for more than one of your own computers.)
C. Different media on different computer.

***The real key is whether the disc verifies at the end of the burn.***

Beyond that, there are more than a few variables regarding different CD players and computer drives reading CDR media. That's an other discussion.

BTW-99 tracks is the limit, and the tracks must be a minimum length, which is 4 seconds.

Just like "real" CD's, some players will have difficulty reading the outer edges of a very lengthy disc, and that's why some houses have time limits lower than the actual capacity of the disc.
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