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New feature discussion: faster precision editing?

 
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SteveSgt



Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: New feature discussion: faster precision editing? Reply with quote

I came to Amadeus Pro as a refugee from the demise of Bias and their best-ever-in-the-word audio editor, Peak Pro. One feature set where Peak still wins over ever other audio editing package I've used is the ease of fine, detailed editing.

For example, let's say I have 30 takes of a violin sonata, and a marked-up score telling me which takes have the best notes and measures. With Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the clip, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the good section of the source take. Then CMD-C would copy that section (along with a little extra for the default crossfade. I would repeat the process over the bad note in the destination take, leaving a region selected, and then CMD-P would paste, and voila, the note is fixed. Think about how many more error-prone steps this currently takes in Amadeus Pro.

here's another example: I've got a 30-minute interview for a documentary littered with "umms", "ahhs", "you-knows", "aaaaands" etc. I need to whip through that and delete all of those distractions. Again, in Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the filler-word to be removed, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the annoyance, and then just hit the delete key, and it's gone.

In Amadeus Pro, I have to find that spot visually by trial-and-error. Then I have to "split clip" from the "Tracks" menu (for there is no keyboard equivalent). Then I have to find the end point of the word the same cumbersome way, and "Split Clip" again. Now I can delete the offending word-clip in the middle. But wait, there's now a gap of silence I can only fill by dragging everything after that gap leftward to fill it. And then I have to install a crossfade by right-clicking on "Merge with Next/Previous Clip". If this doesn't sound right, it's not just one undo, but rather at least three steps I have to undo to get back to where I can try this again.

I don't expect Amadeus Pro to work exactly like Peak, but I certainly would like to see it make these kinds of detailed edits much easier for those of us who truly need a professional tool. Am I missing some convenience that Amadeus Pro has to make this workflow easier? Do others have ideas about how Amadeus Pro can be improved to make editing faster and easier?
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Martin Hairer
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1615

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: New feature discussion: faster precision editing? Reply with quote

Hi, there are a few tips that might go a long way in increasing the speed of your workflow:

1. To “scrub”, click and drag into the timeline just below the track while playback is on. You can hit “p” to mark the current position and then easily select the region between two markers in the “Markers” window.

2. To delete a small piece of sound, just select it and hit delete, there’s certainly no need whatsoever to use the “split clip” function for that. The same goes for copy / paste.

3. If you turn on “smart editing”, copy / paste / delete automatically includes short crossfades.

4. If you want a key shortcut for a function that doesn’t have one assigned, you can always assign one yourself using the Keyboard -> Shortcuts pane in the system preferences.

Hope this helps. Regards,

Martin

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HairerSoft
http://www.hairersoft.com/



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Garth Humphreys
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: New feature discussion: faster precision editing? Reply with quote

As for removing umm’s etc, i do the following.
1. place a marker at the start point by pressing the P key - places a marker at the Play head.
2. Play through to the end of the selection and move the insertion point there by pressing Cmd+Y.
3. Select from the insertion point back to the prior marker with CMD+Left arrow.
4. Press Delete.

Okay, so there’s a few steps there but it is really pretty quick and can all be done with your hands never leaving the keyboard. Also if you hit the E key while you have a selection, AP will preview how the piece will sound after the selection is deleted. The A, S & D, F, keys will allow you to adjust the beginning and end points of the selection. A moving the beginning of the selection earlier and S moving it later. You can guess what D & F do. The amount of zoom will determine how much the A, S, D, and F move the selection points. I love that I can sit there with my left hand on the home row and get stuff done pretty quickly.

This said I would like the ability to scrub.

Garth
On 15 Jun 2014, at 8:20 pm, SteveSgt <forum2mail@hairersoft.com> wrote:

Quote:
I came to Amadeus Pro as a refugee from the demise of Bias and their best-ever-in-the-word audio editor, Peak Pro. One feature set where Peak still wins over ever other audio editing package I've used is the ease of fine, detailed editing.

For example, let's say I have 30 takes of a violin sonata, and a marked-up score telling me which takes have the best notes and measures. With Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the clip, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the good section of the source take. Then CMD-C would copy that section (along with a little extra for the default crossfade. I would repeat the process over the bad note in the destination take, leaving a region selected, and then CMD-P would paste, and voila, the note is fixed. Think about how many more error-prone steps this currently takes in Amadeus Pro.

here's another example: I've got a 30-minute interview for a documentary littered with "umms", "ahhs", "you-knows", "aaaaands" etc. I need to whip through that and delete all of those distractions. Again, in Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the filler-word to be removed, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the annoyance, and then just hit the delete key, and it's gone.

In Amadeus Pro, I have to find that spot visually by trial-and-error. Then I have to "split clip" from the "Tracks" menu (for there is no keyboard equivalent). Then I have to find the end point of the word the same cumbersome way, and "Split Clip" again. Now I can delete the offending word-clip in the middle. But wait, there's now a gap of silence I can only fill by dragging everything after that gap leftward to fill it. And then I have to install a crossfade by right-clicking on "Merge with Next/Previous Clip". If this doesn't sound right, it's not just one undo, but rather at least three steps I have to undo to get back to where I can try this again.

I don't expect Amadeus Pro to work exactly like Peak, but I certainly would like to see it make these kinds of detailed edits much easier for those of us who truly need a professional tool. Am I missing some convenience that Amadeus Pro has to make this workflow easier? Do others have ideas about how Amadeus Pro can be improved to make editing faster and easier?




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Dan Eickmeier
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: New feature discussion: faster precision editing? Reply with quote

Agreed, Garth. the ability to scrub, via the keyboard would be good. Clicking and dragging in the timeline with the mouse, , doesn’t exactly work for those using VoiceOver.
On Jun 15, 2014, at 6:56 AM, Garth Humphreys <ghum01@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
As for removing umm’s etc, i do the following.
1. place a marker at the start point by pressing the P key - places a marker at the Play head.
2. Play through to the end of the selection and move the insertion point there by pressing Cmd+Y.
3. Select from the insertion point back to the prior marker with CMD+Left arrow.
4. Press Delete.

Okay, so there’s a few steps there but it is really pretty quick and can all be done with your hands never leaving the keyboard. Also if you hit the E key while you have a selection, AP will preview how the piece will sound after the selection is deleted. The A, S & D, F, keys will allow you to adjust the beginning and end points of the selection. A moving the beginning of the selection earlier and S moving it later. You can guess what D & F do. The amount of zoom will determine how much the A, S, D, and F move the selection points. I love that I can sit there with my left hand on the home row and get stuff done pretty quickly.

This said I would like the ability to scrub.

Garth
On 15 Jun 2014, at 8:20 pm, SteveSgt <forum2mail@hairersoft.com> wrote:

Quote:
I came to Amadeus Pro as a refugee from the demise of Bias and their best-ever-in-the-word audio editor, Peak Pro. One feature set where Peak still wins over ever other audio editing package I've used is the ease of fine, detailed editing.

For example, let's say I have 30 takes of a violin sonata, and a marked-up score telling me which takes have the best notes and measures. With Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the clip, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the good section of the source take. Then CMD-C would copy that section (along with a little extra for the default crossfade. I would repeat the process over the bad note in the destination take, leaving a region selected, and then CMD-P would paste, and voila, the note is fixed. Think about how many more error-prone steps this currently takes in Amadeus Pro.

here's another example: I've got a 30-minute interview for a documentary littered with "umms", "ahhs", "you-knows", "aaaaands" etc. I need to whip through that and delete all of those distractions. Again, in Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the filler-word to be removed, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the annoyance, and then just hit the delete key, and it's gone.

In Amadeus Pro, I have to find that spot visually by trial-and-error. Then I have to "split clip" from the "Tracks" menu (for there is no keyboard equivalent). Then I have to find the end point of the word the same cumbersome way, and "Split Clip" again. Now I can delete the offending word-clip in the middle. But wait, there's now a gap of silence I can only fill by dragging everything after that gap leftward to fill it. And then I have to install a crossfade by right-clicking on "Merge with Next/Previous Clip". If this doesn't sound right, it's not just one undo, but rather at least three steps I have to undo to get back to where I can try this again.

I don't expect Amadeus Pro to work exactly like Peak, but I certainly would like to see it make these kinds of detailed edits much easier for those of us who truly need a professional tool. Am I missing some convenience that Amadeus Pro has to make this workflow easier? Do others have ideas about how Amadeus Pro can be improved to make editing faster and easier?




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JEGG



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Steve if you're still reading:

Easy part for uum's and aaahhs: Just draw a selection around the offending sound. Listen to the excerpt and move the handles if needed, delete.

Some other things:

For "rocking" and deletion sorts of things:

1. Use DSP Quattro and you simply "click" not "hold" on the ribbon controller. Use the end for more rocking, the center for less.

(Etiquette and info: Features of Quattro and A Pro are totally different, so one does not at all compete with the other)

2. For Amadeus Pro- Here's scrubbing similarly, if not exactly, to -

*Dynamic Scrub of PEAK*. This is the same for stereo or multi-track.

1. Begin playing the file at an appropriate place.
2. Click/hold (or equiv on magic pad) and drag the play head around. It will play a loop.
*Here's the important step:*
3. When you've found the point, *keep the mouse held down at the intended point* (the audio continues to loop) and *depress the space bar* simultaneously. That precisely positions the playback head (and stops the loop).
4. Place a marker.

*********The significant limitation is, unlike Peak, the duration of the loop cannot be specified(!!!), and it is not nearly(!) short enough to accurately place a marker-but you will improve with practice.


Hello Martin: I wrote the above a year or two ago.

Is there now an adjustable loop time for the scrub function? Adjustable from as short as 10ms to a more usual 60ms on up to 150ms-more if wanted. That would really extend the utility of editing in AP. And it would be nice if playback didn't have to be engaged so that the playback head need not be "chased." It may first be counter-intuitive, but editing requires these really short loop times.


Last edited by JEGG on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:32 pm; edited 8 times in total
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JEGG



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: New feature discussion: faster precision editing? Reply with quote

SteveSgt wrote:


For example, let's say I have 30 takes of a violin sonata, and a marked-up score telling me which takes have the best notes and measures. With Peak, I would use the "scrub" feature (click-hold) find the beginning of the clip, leave the cursor there, hold shift and do the same at the end of the clip, selecting the good section of the source take. Then CMD-C would copy that section (along with a little extra for the default crossfade. I would repeat the process over the bad note in the destination take, leaving a region selected, and then CMD-P would paste, and voila, the note is fixed. Think about how many more error-prone steps this currently takes in Amadeus Pro.


Steve-here you're talking about "Source Destination" editing. You're right, few apps of any price have this.

Edit: This is a rewrite of a long post where I described one method - very clumsy - of source destination.

Now, however, I'd do it a very different way.

The key is to use:
1. Split Clip
and/or
2. Copy and paste selections (clips)

Just allow a little extra - 2 seconds on each side of clips. Then you just place them next to each other - abutted. You join the two clips at a time so you can do the delete edit across the clips. Then you keep going.

So you have all your clips from all sorts of places - and you can keep them in order in a separate file open right under the destination that you're working on - and you just copy them to the destination. If you have a "primary" destination (a single file that contains most of your performance), you can, if you like, just split that file as you go.

A neat thing here is that you can work at any point of your project at any time.

This isn't so terribly inefficient over source destination. With S/D, you have to very precisely find four points. With AP, you just select your delete section, than hit shortcut letter "e" to audition your result. Drag you delete selection to adjust. Set your edit preview to 2 seconds.

Very slick - but you still have the rub of precisely positioning that join edit - again due to scrubbing. But that is negated by 1) making a selection 2) auditioning the result with "e", and then 3) dragging your selection handle as needed. It's reasonably close to a four point edit procedure.

BTW - I have a friend who can just intuitively plonk down a point in Amadeus for an edit and it's always spot on. And he never actually uses the application, he just walks by. How frustrating!!
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