Mailing ListMailing List   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Pitch and Speed problem (with tremolo)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.hairersoft.com Forum Index -> Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dpfels



Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Pitch and Speed problem (with tremolo) Reply with quote

I am trying to change the speed of an orchestral piece with a solo cello that uses deep tremolo. From what I can tell, the speed change algorithm is having some problem with the tremolo though I am not sure why. If I slow the speed to 85%, the parts with tremolo sound slightly drunk: the speed of the tremolo is no longer uniform and the pitch sounds slightly off for brief moments.

Is there something about the speed/pitch algorithm that can be fooled by a slow tremolo? It sounds like it is trying to dynamically compensate for the change in pitch that is part of the cellist's technique.

Is there a better plugin out there that won't have this problem?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ioannis



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Netherlands/Greece

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard good things about iZotope's pitch/speed algorithm, but I don't know if there is any plugin using it.
There should be, but they make rather expensive stuff...

But I think the problem is not always the software. Tremolo by humans is almost never isochronic, or uniform in db's, so what you describe by slowing it down is expected. It just makes these "anomalies" (that make it more beautiful than the mechanic/electronic tremolo) clear... A slow-down to 85% is in this case "huge"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
dpfels



Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! I think your reply was better than getting the software. I enjoyed that!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ioannis



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Netherlands/Greece

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my pleasure...

Well, if you want to keep the same fast tremolo in slower speed, what you could consider is the following trick:

copy (part of) the original/fast one,
"amplify" it with a negative value
add/mix it with the slowed down version, in a way that it sounds faster and uniform.

I don't know if the result will be what you want it to be, but it may work...

Another way could be to:
just copy part of the original/fast one and just add it somewhere in itself with a good fade so it makes the original longer...
But if there's a lot of dynamic or other modulation (a ponticello or cresc/dim etc) it won't work.

Let me know what happens (if you try it)

gr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
dpfels



Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting - I will try both of these these approaches. I need to listen carefully to see if the variation is primarily in amplitude or pitch - I am fairly sure it is both.

Since the problem is primarily with one phrase, it may be worth doing the kind of spot corrections you are proposing. In any case, it will be worth trying, since I am bound to learn something.

Thanks again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ioannis



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Netherlands/Greece

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it may work (especially if you add some minimal or more reverb to it), but of course, it's never going to be exactly as if the player was doing it for longer time.

Normally the variation will be in both speed and frequency.

But it is a little remedy if you have no other choice.

- Another trick to try (if e.g. you need to keep a fast/intense tremolo for longer, instead of doing the first tips), is to:

copy a part of the tremolo (that has the character you need and maybe with the least frequency/dynamic variation) and treat is as a kind of loop, adjusting the cross fades a/o controlling the volume level, so that it sounds uniform. So you can patch the empty time you need. It will work best if it's not such a big "hole"...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.hairersoft.com Forum Index -> Discussion All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group