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...next question-removing vinyl groove noise

 
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jimbo1421



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

Hello again.

Has anyone come up with a good method for removing or reducing groove noise from vinyl records? I have a bunch of Chopin nocturnes with some very quiet passages; the signal to noise ratio is very low. I have tried a variety of methods, but the pulsating nature of the noise results in a pulsating signal (piano) removal that is much worse than the noise.
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Gerard Bik



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

My last project was cleaning up a live recording of an amateur opera.

Experimented with the compressor/expander effects and the noise reduction. Results sounded unnatural.

Tried several methods but in the end I manually reduced the noise surrounding the soft passages.
Make two favourite actions, one to amplify and one to attenuate, both with the desired smoothing settings. This way you can quickly adjust difficult passages. Most of the material fortunately didn't need adjusting and wasn't affected at all this way (it would have been affected with an automated effect).

This manual pass actually took less time than the experiments

Hope someone has a better solution Smile

regards

Quote:
Hello again.

Has anyone come up with a good method for removing or reducing groove noise from vinyl records? I have a bunch of Chopin nocturnes with some very quiet passages; the signal to noise ratio is very low. I have tried a variety of methods, but the pulsating nature of the noise results in a pulsating signal (piano) removal that is much worse than the noise.




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jimbo1421



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

"Make two favourite actions, one to amplify and one to attenuate, both with the desired smoothing settings."

So you would first amplify the passage, then apply the noise filter, using the sample from between tracks?

Jim
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robert_theory



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

Quote:
Has anyone come up with a good method for removing or reducing
groove noise from vinyl records? I have a bunch of Chopin nocturnes
with some very quiet passages; the signal to noise ratio is very
low. I have tried a variety of methods, but the pulsating nature of
the noise results in a pulsating signal (piano) removal that is much
worse than the noise.

Have you tried Brian Davies's ClickRepair? Chances are good that the
noise you have is a sequence of individual pops that can be pretty
effectively removed by that software.

http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/software_download/clickrepair_info.html

Also follow links to find other interesting restoration stuff on his
site.

-- Robert
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CDJonah_alt



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

From the description, possibly the denoiser would work better than
clickrepair (to which Robert indirectly referred )

I have also used the denoiser in Amadeus but took the noise sample and
de-amplified it before using it as the noise sample. That can cut down
artifacts when dealing with low S/N signals.

I have also had some success with SoundSoap.

Sometimes the best approach is to listen to the music and let the brain
filter it out.

Chuck

Robert Kennedy wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone come up with a good method for removing or reducing
groove noise from vinyl records? I have a bunch of Chopin nocturnes
with some very quiet passages; the signal to noise ratio is very
low. I have tried a variety of methods, but the pulsating nature of
the noise results in a pulsating signal (piano) removal that is much
worse than the noise.


Have you tried Brian Davies's ClickRepair? Chances are good that the
noise you have is a sequence of individual pops that can be pretty
effectively removed by that software.

http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/software_download/clickrepair_info.html

Also follow links to find other interesting restoration stuff on his
site.

-- Robert
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Gerard Bik



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

That's right it was you, Chuck, who gave this tip. Thanks.
I use it often. Noise reduction sounds less unnatural when the noise sample is used at 40 or 60%. The noise reduction is less also, but the overall user experience improves and that is what I am after.

The Denoising settings do not seem to offer the same flexibility as the "Chuck-method"

gerards regards


Quote:
From the description, possibly the denoiser would work better than clickrepair (to which Robert indirectly referred )

I have also used the denoiser in Amadeus but took the noise sample and de-amplified it before using it as the noise sample. That can cut down artifacts when dealing with low S/N signals.

I have also had some success with SoundSoap.

Sometimes the best approach is to listen to the music and let the brain filter it out.

Chuck

Robert Kennedy wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone come up with a good method for removing or reducing
groove noise from vinyl records? I have a bunch of Chopin nocturnes
with some very quiet passages; the signal to noise ratio is very
low. I have tried a variety of methods, but the pulsating nature of
the noise results in a pulsating signal (piano) removal that is much
worse than the noise.


Have you tried Brian Davies's ClickRepair? Chances are good that the
noise you have is a sequence of individual pops that can be pretty
effectively removed by that software.

http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/software_download/clickrepair_info.html

Also follow links to find other interesting restoration stuff on his
site.

-- Robert
_


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Gerard Bik



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

jimbo1421 wrote:
"Make two favourite actions, one to amplify and one to attenuate, both with the desired smoothing settings."

So you would first amplify the passage, then apply the noise filter, using the sample from between tracks?

Jim


That's also possible.
Chuck's idea is: take a noise sample, paste it into a new track, amplify to say 60 %. Take this attenuated file as the noise sample, go back to the original and apply Denoising.

But what I did was the simplest of operations: amplify the low level words and attenuate the noise (camera and audience) in between.
Theoretically a compressor/expander could do this, but I have only found settings that sound unnatural to me.
The "favorite actions" feature speeds up the manual editing process so much that (for me) it is quicker than trying to get the best results from a plug-in.

Go and have a good experiment...
If this was my daily work, I'd probably invest in better plug ins.
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CDJonah_alt



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: ...next question-removing vinyl groove noise Reply with quote

Unfortunately, the goal in this process should be to make the music
listenable and not make it sound like a modern CD. In general, the
qhality of sound coming out of Amadeus will be dependent on the quality
going in. Certainly some simple sounds (hums, etc) can be removed quite
effectively and background noises can be attenuated, but CD-type quality
will not occur. Possibly with the many thousand dollar commercial
systems you can do better, but ... .

Chuck

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Charles D. Jonah CDJonah@anl.gov
630-252-3471
Chemistry Division
Argonne National Laboratory
Argonne, IL 60439



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