Mailing ListMailing List   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Speech Music

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.hairersoft.com Forum Index -> Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ChuckleMaster



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Speech Music Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm interested in the musicality of the human voice. Normally, it's hard to study because one gets distracted by the meanings of the words.

I'd like to modify recorded human speech so that it sounds, as much as possible, like a musical instrument -- I'd hear the notes and rhythms, without distinct vowel or consonant sounds. It's probably more important to blur consonants than vowels. but I'm not certain of that.

Please suggest a good combination of effects or filters for this purpose. I'll buy a commercial plug in, if necessary, though, of course, I'd prefer to do it free, if possible.

Has anyone else tried this?

Thanks,


Tim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robert_theory



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Speech Music Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm interested in the musicality of the human voice. Normally, it's
hard to study because one gets distracted by the meanings of the
words.

That part sounds easy. There are hundreds of languages spoken in the
world today. Just pick one that you don't understand at all, and get
some recorded material spoken in that language.

Done. Much easier than signal processing.

Quote:
Has anyone else tried this?

People have tried similar things. Some people cut and paste vowel
sounds, sample them, loop them, etc. There are a bunch of synth
patches that are sampled human voices singing "ooo," for example.

Is that the kind of thing you're thinking of?

-- Robert
_______________________________________________
Amadeus forum mailing list
Unsubscribe / change settings at http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/forum_list
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChuckleMaster



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robert,

That's a good effort, and I appreciate it, but, no, that's not what I want.

I want to study the musicality of familiar voices, speaking English.

For instance, I'm interested to learn if I can recognize the voices of familiar speakers from the melody and rhythm of their speech, while obscuring the other qualities of their voices.

Voice pitches typically slide up and down as they go from one syllable to the next, so I don't think patching in sampled human voices would do the trick.

If there's a way to get sampled sounds to follow the pitch and rhythms of a recorded voice, that might work well, but I doubt it's possible and I have no idea how to do that. That's why I was thinking about effects and filters.

More suggestions welcome.

Tim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robert_theory



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:24 am    Post subject: Speech Music Reply with quote

Quote:
If there's a way to get sampled sounds to follow the pitch and rhythms
of a recorded voice, that might work well, but I doubt it's possible
and I have no idea how to do that. That's why I was thinking about
effects and filters.

I don't think you can do what you want strictly with effects and
filters, but there are some vocal tract models that do kind of what
you want.

Vocoders used for telephony typically analyze the speech signal and
separate it into a pitch and a set of parameters that can be
interpreted as describing the shapes and positions of various elements
of the speaker's vocal tract.

These models allow effects like resynthesizing the speech at a
different pitch or with modified vocal tract characteristics.

In order to be useful for telephony, the models also have to handle
non-pitched sounds like sibillance, plosive attacks, etc. It's not
clear what you would want to hear in place of those things in the
modified version of speech you're aiming for.

I think what you're talking about is a bit of a research project, not
something that can be built entirely from canned stuff that already
exists. But vocoder techniques will probably help, as you could
substitute modified filter parameters for the voiced portions of the
speech while leaving the pitch signal alone, thereby causing the same
rise and fall of vocal intonation with different phonemes.

Probably not so easy, but certainly interesting to think about.

-- Robert
_______________________________________________
Amadeus forum mailing list
Unsubscribe / change settings at http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/forum_list
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gerard Bik



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:33 am    Post subject: Speech Music Reply with quote

Quote:
Hi Robert,

That's a good effort, and I appreciate it, but, no, that's not what I want.

I want to study the musicality of familiar voices, speaking English.

For instance, I'm interested to learn if I can recognize the voices of familiar speakers from the melody and rhythm of their speech, while obscuring the other qualities of their voices.

Voice pitches typically slide up and down as they go from one syllable to the next, so I don't think patching in sampled human voices would do the trick.

If there's a way to get sampled sounds to follow the pitch and rhythms of a recorded voice, that might work well, but I doubt it's possible and I have no idea how to do that. That's why I was thinking about effects and filters.

More suggestions welcome.
Tim


Great research subject, Tim


You might try (a demo of) Melodyne http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=358
It analyzes all kinds of characteristics of a sound and makes it possible to transfer these. You can then replace a singers voice with an instrument, for example.


"Melodyne is intelligent: it recognizes the music in an audio file and represents it directly as notes"


One problem, it certainly isn't free, but the demo is. I have been planning for some time to investigate this, but did not make enough time yet.


gerards regards
Quote:
--
______________________ _
Gerard Bik grafische vormgeving
Van Aerssenstraat 263
2582 JM Den Haag
070 3554081
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChuckleMaster



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert wrote:

Quote:
Vocoders used for telephony typically analyze the speech signal and
separate it into a pitch and a set of parameters that can be
interpreted as describing the shapes and positions of various elements
of the speaker's vocal tract.

These models allow effects like resynthesizing the speech at a
different pitch or with modified vocal tract characteristics.


That's cool, Robert. Unfortunately, I know nothing about this sort of thing. Is there some commercial or shareware vocoder product I could mess around with? Preferably on my Macintosh? (I do have a Windows XP machine, only for dire emergencies Smile

Quote:
I don't think you can do what you want strictly with effects and
filters, but there are some vocal tract models that do kind of what
you want.



Understood. Nevertheless, considering the cost of commercial products, such as Melodyne, I'd like to try -- see how far I can get. If I can reduce speech intelligibility, while preserving melody and rhythm, that would be a step in the right direction.

I wonder if there's a way to prolong decay and attack on short, high amplitude sounds. Those would be consonants, I suppose. Compressing the dynamic range might help, though I've never been able to figure out how to use a compressor. Severely attenuating frequencies above a certain point might help. I'm not very good at this sort of thing, so I haven't gotten very far with it yet, though I'm experimenting.

What about something comparable to a "gaussian blur," as in photoshop? Is there a way to do something like that?

GerardBik wrote:

Quote:
You might try (a demo of) Melodyne http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=358
It analyzes all kinds of characteristics of a sound and makes it possible to transfer these. You can then replace a singers voice with an instrument, for example.


Thanks a bunch, Gerard. It's gratifying to know that someone is interested in this topic. It's rather obscure, isn't it?

Melodyne might be just the ticket. I haven't had a chance to download the demo and try it yet. Will do soon, and will report back. Hooh, boy! The purchase price is high. Will the VST plugin work with Amadeus and OS X?


Cheers,


Tim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martin Hairer
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1615

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Speech Music Reply with quote

Quote:
Will the VST plugin work with Amadeus and OS X?

The only way to be sure is to try out the demo, but a priori I don't see

any reason for it not too work.

Regarding the main topic of the thread, this sounds indeed like a nice
research project. Looking into vocoders would be a good first step (there
are free ones around as VST plug-ins I think), but it is not clear that the
result would really be what you expect... Regards,


Martin


HairerSoft
http://www.hairersoft.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ioannis



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Netherlands/Greece

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: question: amadeus pro & melodyne Reply with quote

Hello people,

any news if amadeus pro can work along with melodyne (plug in)?

I don't have the macbook here now to install the plugin, but untill now no other vst has worked... (maybe they're old school vst's Wink

If somebody knows I'd be happy to hear!

greetings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.hairersoft.com Forum Index -> Discussion All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group